Good vs. Useful

My Si Hing wrote about what a good person is in the Greek and Roman Philosophical tradition, on his blog, Agathos. I wanted to pipe in not in terms of Eastern Philosophy that is written down, but what I saw growing up. In Chinese, yes of course the will talk about good people "ho yun." vs, bad people "wai yun."
But the only people that ever really said this stuff to me were teachers in the context of a preschool class or other parents talking to very small children. Once you get old enough to do stuff, the words your hear more often are USEFUL. "Yau Yung" means they have use. "Moh yung" means no use.
For instance you load a dulcimer the wrong way, "moh yung." You get caught selling drugs (getting caught is key.) "Moh Yung." You go to jail. "Moh Yung."
You give someone a ride home, "Yau yung." You help out at Chinese New Year, "Yau Yung" You hold campaign signs for the the people the politician someone wants elected. "Yau Yung." You hold signs for the other person, "Moh Yung."

Get it?

This leads me now to a more antiquated concept. "Ho Hohn." Or Good Han.

Here is a song telling you to be a good Han. It's mostly saying get stronger and then go do some stuff to make the country stronger.

And for kicks here are my kids singing it.

The 108 heroes of the water margin describe the heroes as "Ho Hohn." What kind of people are they? Yes there are very moral people who are part of the group. But there are also rapists, cannibals, murderers... yeah a lot of murderers. Some of them murdered bad people. But some of the people that were murdered were just adulterers or even rape victims. How does that make the victim bad and the perpetrator good? But at least back when the novel was written, that's how it was seen. 

But to join they sort of had to stop some of the bad things they did, theoretically. Is that what main them Good Han? No what made them Good Han is that when stuff goes down they would be there to watch your back and die for you. In other words they could be totally horrible people. But they are still good Han. 

So in philosophy there is all this stuff but I think even now on the street in all cultures not just Chinese. Good people are often just people that are helping you. 

Unless they commit some sort of socially unacceptable thing, like child molestation or kidnapping... and are proven guilty. For instance. Michael Jackson allegedly did stuff to children. But those parents still let their kids go over and sleep at his house. If they thought he was bad, they wouldn't do that. After all, look at all the money he made, and gave us, and all the good videos he did. He did stuff. He has to be good. 

Look at Roman Polanski. He made really good movies. So most people who are friends with him cannot see him as a rapist. Why? because he can do a good thing. He can make a good movie. 

I mean most people want to burn child molesters at the stake, unless it's Michael Jackson or Roman Polanski and that Sanduski, I mean people had to know. But what was his crime? His crime was when he finally got caught. Or Bill Cosby. Because they did good things, or won games, or made great TV shows, it is hard to see them as bad unless there is enough evidence.

This is in normal society. 

Now what about a rebellion or an uprising or a less stable time? I mean there are probably nice refined people who join in battle too. But you need all these ruthless guys to get the job done too. They may be the scum of the earth during normal times, but during some sort of "just war" they are suddenly heroes and if they die, it's like all their sins are wiped clean or at least over looked because they did something for a Cause. 

We don't call people that don't hurt people good. We usually call them nice. "He's a nice guy." In other words, "I don't THINK he'll stab you in the back or slit your throat. He's okay...." 

And if you're in the mob or something being good might mean doing bad stuff and not telling. "I don't think he'll snitch, and I think he'll stab the other guy or slit the other guy's throat who we don't like. He's okay, He's good."

We might talk about morality but ultimately we are just primates trying not to get eaten by tigers or killed by other primates and trying to find all the fruit and water possible and we still tend to see the world pretty much just like the animals we are in our day to day life.

When a person is no longer useful, can no longer make great movies, can no longer win games, can no longer make great TV... now they can be attacked for all the wrong things they did. Now they are a horrible person. But if they die before that... they die a Saint. Weird yes. But just look at it. It is kind of how we judge people.